If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Since then, the industry standard has been R134a, which is an efficient replacement. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. MB has specfic test parameters for performance, but you can always test at max load - doors open fan on highest speed.The oil overcharge looks like a parabolic curve. The difference really shows up on the high side. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Performance doesn't seem to have improved. Jun 17, 2011. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. I'm thinking I might have put too much oil in the system - everywhere i read had a different amount - the manufacturer of the compressor, the MB factory service manual, online forums. Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. The non-flammables can have R22 type gas which is not compatible with most rubber hoses or they have gases that contribute to global warming. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . Please enter a password for your user account. R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. He used thermostatic expansion valve and Capillary tube for analysis with R12. For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. My turn to LOL - greasiesel! So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? I'm just trying to help you avoid headaches in the long run. They can be mounted quite easy,and there is a mounting kit that helps to hang it. The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a. This leads me to labor over every small decision. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. Superheat you can consider to be the additional amount of heat. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. CR4P). Bohica, I appreciate your help with this. Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator. B. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. It is common for eurocar threads to go multiple pages, and as Nick points out - sometimes cool is all you will ever get. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. It is a haloalkane and hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerant that has thermodynamic properties, potential global warming for one hundred years, and insignificant ozone depletion. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. That would be the "black death" syndrome. . of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Therefore, the higher the factor of the chemical (compound), the greater its effect on global warming. Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . The expansion valve is designed so that the temperature of the refrigerant at the evaporator outlet must have 8 to 12F (4 to 7C) of superheat before more refrigerant is allowed to enter the evaporator. The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? CLUTCH CYCLING SWITCH. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Hi pdrayton- If you can remember the oil capacity that you found in all your research and post that, then bohica and others can have a better idea if you have too much; see if you can find that info! The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. To prevent refrigerant loss you should consider replacing your old hose lines with barrier type hose. If you have the work done, be sure you find a true "A/C" shop that can make up lines. Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. Amazon.com: 134a Valve By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. R404a for freezing of product. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? How thermostatic expansion valves work | Danfoss Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. R134a Expansion valve different from R12? - Automotive Air Conditioning Where would I get some basic info on it, I know nothing about it. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. B. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to be found and thus we have the new 1234yf. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? #19. What is a T/C?4. That switch should close @ 52c. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. Hence, let us continue to fix it. Just because the radiator does not boil people assume that the cooling system is ok. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . We chose to use 5-6 ounces of oil to be on the safe side: 3-4 ounces for the compressor, 1 oz of oil for the drier and another ounce of oil for system losses. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. A good T/C, clamped to the line & insulated gives a repeatable measurement of the tube. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. In short, NO! This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. Recomanem consultar les pgines web de Xarxa Catal per veure tota la nostra oferta. And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. Jun 19, 2007. Spray it deep, and let it sit for a few minutes. Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. Agram a retevis rt22 password i bastrop county district clerk records el material que oferim als nostres webs. R12 or R134a - 928 Owners Club Forum The Main change in the system is the expansion valve. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. Temp switch works the aux fan. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Its highest value is 1. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? ). I had to vaccum the system for 2 hours and recharge 4 oz of PAG oil plus 36 oz of 134A freon (3 cans). R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). Generally this works well for the whole system. Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. The oil is spread all over your system when it is at rest. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. Is it exponential, squared? What effect would it have on performance, if any? Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. Use a strong surfactant like Simple Green or Zep Citrus, and soak the fins on the condensor. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. Trinary Pressure Switch $ 39.99. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. = R134a Charge Level. A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". Questions About Becoming A Professional Member? Depending on which circuit diagram fits your car (cough, no vin list exists) you have either one or two switches controlling the aux fan. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. Since there is only about a 10% difference between R-12 and R-134a, the expansion valve being self-compensating really doesn't make that much difference. Moreso, it had been banned. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. An extra half ounce? Table 1 summarizes the technical characteristics of three potential R134a alternatives. Shorting the plug for the refrigerant switch should run the fan when the compressor is on. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system.
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